Denis, one of our instructors, entered a spin, for which our aircraft are not certified. The student was to demonstrate proper stall recovery, but instead reverted to an unsafe procedure taught to him by Russell, the Chief Flight Instructor.
As was proper, Denis reported it so the aircraft could be inspected for possible damage and cleared for flight. Unfortunately, Edmond over-reacted. This was my first exposure to the appalling training Russell was providing and the improper interference of flight training Edmond was instigating.
____________________
Edmond,
I am sure you heard about the adventurous flight in PK-LLB today. We had an unintentional spin and the HSA was flickering at us on the way back after we left SWQ. Here is how the series of events transpired.
1. Unintentional spin: I had Jouna practice a power-off stall. We entered the maneuver at 2,700 and he slowed the aircraft down to 80 kias and then lowered the flaps I had him descend to 2,500 and try to maintain attitude. When the aircraft finally stalled instead of releasing back pressure on the stick and then applying full power smoothly he held the stick back and slammed the throttle full forward causing the aircraft to enter an "Over-the-top" entry into a spin.
This kind of spin entry puts the aircraft in an inverted state. I immediately pulled the throttle to idle and recovered the aircraft losing only 800 feet. This kind of spin usually nets around a 1,200 to 1,500 foot loss of altitude.
Cause of the spin: Lack of proper rudder application, failure for the student to lower nose prior to adding power. The type of power application (slamming the throttle wide open) is a reaction learned in the primary stage of training as was seen in the very first few flights on video.
Rectification: After recovery Jouna asked if he could take a break and I replied "No, I will demonstrate it for you again and then you will do it properly" After I demonstrated the maneuver he performed it flawlessly. If I had let him get on the ground he would most likely have not completed the course.
____________________
This incident made me aware of several on-going issues with LIFT flight training.
Russell was teaching improper procedures in various phases of flight, which Denis and Kwan were having to retrain the students to the correct procedures.
Edmond was involved in day-to-day flight training decisions which should be left to instructors and for which he had no background or expertise.
I became concerned and decided to investigate further on my own. Many of the flights were recorded on video and I was able to observe the quality of flight training first hand.
____________________
Denis,
In this email you mentioned that the stall was at 2,500 (??? agl) whereas in the phone you said 4,500, so which one is right? 2,500 is too low for students of their experience to practice stall.
Russell,
Let me stress again that ALL INSTRUCTORS ARE NOT ALLOWED to perform full-stall recovery during PPL training. Students are too inexperienced for such maneuver. However, you may demonstrate such full-stall recovery if you think fit. Let us wait for aerobatic plane before we do such full stall and spin recovery.
Violation is a serious offense and will lead to immediate dismissal without compensation.
To All,
Safety is number one and NO COWBOY IN LIFT.
Regards,
Edmond.
____________________
Edmond,
I thought long and hard about the decision to remove the stall training from the training program and I did some research. Under CASR regulation 61.107a (4) it states that the pilot seeking a private pilot certification must perform "Flight at slow airspeeds with realistic distractions, and the recognition of and recovery from stalls entered from straight flight and from turns" I was not acting as a cowboy trying to show my students my flying ability.
You yourself said on the telephone that you have never completed a full stall and recovery and because of this you never went further after earning your commercial rating as you were not comfortable. You also stated that in this country no one does the full stall instruction and that is why so may people die in those accidents here and in Malaysia where they do not do the instruction as well. I remember when I came on board you told me you wanted to produce the best and safest pilots in Indonesia and taking this out of the training program will only prevent that from happening. If Jouna was on a solo flight and had inadvertently encountered this spin we would have had our first fatal incident in this school.
As for the recommendation from Russell saying that the stalls are unsafe and not needed I have to be honest with you on this. ... Every time he performed the stall the left wing would drop due to his lack of constant and even right rudder application and the slamming of the throttle full forward causing the aircraft to yaw sharply to the left. I spoke with students and heard him say on video that the wing will always drop which is a very wrong statement. Jack has told me that when he and Russell tried to stall the left wing dropped and the airplane tipped on its side with nose straight down. This was never reported. As for the "wing always dropping" this is not true. When I stall the plane the wing does not drop, when Kwan stalls the airplane the wing does not drop, when Jouna performed the stall correctly the wing did not drop, when Elmo did the stall recovery correctly the wing did not drop.
As far as flying like a cowboy I have never done that. The stall training we were doing was basic private pilot stall training. Safety is, was, and always will be my primary goal. I conduct every flight in a manner safer than my peers.
If this is a part of the training you want removed from the flight training then it needs to be incorporated into the TPM and the DGCA should be notified as the removal from the required flight training.
Regards
Denis
____________________
Note: Full stall recovery is required by Indonesian regulations and specifically mentioned in our Training Procedures Manual (TPM).
____________________
Denis,
Please read my email carefully.
I said it should not be done in "PPL Training" but can be done in later like CPL or in IR when the student has more experience.
I do not want to scare them or get into trouble when they are still new.
Definitely we can do full stall but at a later stage. We can try in simulator later when we have it. Probably by end January.
I am seriously considering to push up our planned aerobatic plane so student can even try spin if they are comfortable.
All these need to be done in a plane specially for that purpose.
Regards,
Edmond.
____________________
Students need to know what full stalls are and how to recover BEFORE SOLO, not during Commercial training like Edmond suggests. Waiting for more experience before training stalls is useless. Additionally, stall training in a simulator is not productive. Simulators are excellent at instrument work and procedures. They are almost useless in training stalls. Waiting for an aerobatic plane is just silly.
As was proper, Denis reported it so the aircraft could be inspected for possible damage and cleared for flight. Unfortunately, Edmond over-reacted. This was my first exposure to the appalling training Russell was providing and the improper interference of flight training Edmond was instigating.
____________________
Edmond,
I am sure you heard about the adventurous flight in PK-LLB today. We had an unintentional spin and the HSA was flickering at us on the way back after we left SWQ. Here is how the series of events transpired.
1. Unintentional spin: I had Jouna practice a power-off stall. We entered the maneuver at 2,700 and he slowed the aircraft down to 80 kias and then lowered the flaps I had him descend to 2,500 and try to maintain attitude. When the aircraft finally stalled instead of releasing back pressure on the stick and then applying full power smoothly he held the stick back and slammed the throttle full forward causing the aircraft to enter an "Over-the-top" entry into a spin.
This kind of spin entry puts the aircraft in an inverted state. I immediately pulled the throttle to idle and recovered the aircraft losing only 800 feet. This kind of spin usually nets around a 1,200 to 1,500 foot loss of altitude.
Cause of the spin: Lack of proper rudder application, failure for the student to lower nose prior to adding power. The type of power application (slamming the throttle wide open) is a reaction learned in the primary stage of training as was seen in the very first few flights on video.
Rectification: After recovery Jouna asked if he could take a break and I replied "No, I will demonstrate it for you again and then you will do it properly" After I demonstrated the maneuver he performed it flawlessly. If I had let him get on the ground he would most likely have not completed the course.
____________________
This incident made me aware of several on-going issues with LIFT flight training.
Russell was teaching improper procedures in various phases of flight, which Denis and Kwan were having to retrain the students to the correct procedures.
Edmond was involved in day-to-day flight training decisions which should be left to instructors and for which he had no background or expertise.
I became concerned and decided to investigate further on my own. Many of the flights were recorded on video and I was able to observe the quality of flight training first hand.
____________________
Denis,
In this email you mentioned that the stall was at 2,500 (??? agl) whereas in the phone you said 4,500, so which one is right? 2,500 is too low for students of their experience to practice stall.
Russell,
Let me stress again that ALL INSTRUCTORS ARE NOT ALLOWED to perform full-stall recovery during PPL training. Students are too inexperienced for such maneuver. However, you may demonstrate such full-stall recovery if you think fit. Let us wait for aerobatic plane before we do such full stall and spin recovery.
Violation is a serious offense and will lead to immediate dismissal without compensation.
To All,
Safety is number one and NO COWBOY IN LIFT.
Regards,
Edmond.
____________________
Edmond,
I thought long and hard about the decision to remove the stall training from the training program and I did some research. Under CASR regulation 61.107a (4) it states that the pilot seeking a private pilot certification must perform "Flight at slow airspeeds with realistic distractions, and the recognition of and recovery from stalls entered from straight flight and from turns" I was not acting as a cowboy trying to show my students my flying ability.
You yourself said on the telephone that you have never completed a full stall and recovery and because of this you never went further after earning your commercial rating as you were not comfortable. You also stated that in this country no one does the full stall instruction and that is why so may people die in those accidents here and in Malaysia where they do not do the instruction as well. I remember when I came on board you told me you wanted to produce the best and safest pilots in Indonesia and taking this out of the training program will only prevent that from happening. If Jouna was on a solo flight and had inadvertently encountered this spin we would have had our first fatal incident in this school.
As for the recommendation from Russell saying that the stalls are unsafe and not needed I have to be honest with you on this. ... Every time he performed the stall the left wing would drop due to his lack of constant and even right rudder application and the slamming of the throttle full forward causing the aircraft to yaw sharply to the left. I spoke with students and heard him say on video that the wing will always drop which is a very wrong statement. Jack has told me that when he and Russell tried to stall the left wing dropped and the airplane tipped on its side with nose straight down. This was never reported. As for the "wing always dropping" this is not true. When I stall the plane the wing does not drop, when Kwan stalls the airplane the wing does not drop, when Jouna performed the stall correctly the wing did not drop, when Elmo did the stall recovery correctly the wing did not drop.
As far as flying like a cowboy I have never done that. The stall training we were doing was basic private pilot stall training. Safety is, was, and always will be my primary goal. I conduct every flight in a manner safer than my peers.
If this is a part of the training you want removed from the flight training then it needs to be incorporated into the TPM and the DGCA should be notified as the removal from the required flight training.
Regards
Denis
____________________
Note: Full stall recovery is required by Indonesian regulations and specifically mentioned in our Training Procedures Manual (TPM).
____________________
Denis,
Please read my email carefully.
I said it should not be done in "PPL Training" but can be done in later like CPL or in IR when the student has more experience.
I do not want to scare them or get into trouble when they are still new.
Definitely we can do full stall but at a later stage. We can try in simulator later when we have it. Probably by end January.
I am seriously considering to push up our planned aerobatic plane so student can even try spin if they are comfortable.
All these need to be done in a plane specially for that purpose.
Regards,
Edmond.
____________________
Students need to know what full stalls are and how to recover BEFORE SOLO, not during Commercial training like Edmond suggests. Waiting for more experience before training stalls is useless. Additionally, stall training in a simulator is not productive. Simulators are excellent at instrument work and procedures. They are almost useless in training stalls. Waiting for an aerobatic plane is just silly.
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